This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Caller: Absolutely. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Right. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Share. Less successful males roam further. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. We'll be right back. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. There was a lot of DNA evidence. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Theres tracks everywhere. Okay. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. They are the same thing. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Mike you're on the air. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. So take care of this problem. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Thank you very much for being here. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Give today. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. I tracked cats and all the western states. Well within there. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Caller: I have yeah. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. N.H. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. We'd love to have you in the queue. So they're scary. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. The report came in from a conservation officer. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Thanks for a great thanks. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Let us know your story and share your photos! 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Rick van de Poll: Yes. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Peter Biello: Hmm. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Good morning guys. Mountain lions live in the state. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. Thank you. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Does not test random Scouts. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. You're on the air. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. Well I can't tell you what you saw. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Thanks for your call. So there's even debate about that very subject. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. They just end up in these places. Rick your thoughts. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Right. Peter Biello: Well yeah. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Caller: Hi. Can you look into this picture. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. It's good to talk to you. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Yes. Let's look for other evidence. So. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. 19 Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? We want answers. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Really appreciate it. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. What do you think that. Seems reasonable! Pelosi story here we go. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. 44-H Links. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Caller: Oh yeah. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Caller: Are probably. 50 feet above the most. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. There was no sign of it. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Is that typically what was happening there. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . We had six copies printed out each. About Lions. They sent it already. Can we go to the site. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. Love hearing these stories. Patrick Tate: Yes. David Erler says some of them probably have. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. There are corollaries in other states. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Can you tell us about that story. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. And the cougar embodies that. Really appreciate it. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. 1957. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Mountain Lions in NH. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. I'll send it to you. By Eric Orff. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is.
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