With his freedom back, Catalan has also not forgotten the show that helped him secure it.May 1, 2021. @2021 - YourDailyHunt.com | All Rights Reserved. The artist's sketch Juan Ibanez helped the police develop looked nothing like Juan Catalan. When he was very young, his uncle took him to Dodger Stadium to see the legendary Mexican pitcher Fernando Valenzuela pitch a game. 27 People Describe What Its Actually Like To Have Someone You Know Go Missing Or BeMurdered, 11 Scary Stranger Stories That Will Make You Check Your Locks AtNight, 10 People Reveal The Haunting Story Behind The Time They Accidentally Found A DeadBody, 50 World Travelers Tell Their Creepiest HotelStories, 50+ True Crime Stories That Will Shock You To YourCore. "And then, all of a sudden, there he was!". And a detailed log the detectives kept of their investigation shows no indication that they had contact with Puebla or her parents after they used the girl to bait Ledesma during the interrogation. In regards to the murder, four men were later arrested and found guilty. On the night of May 12, 2003, 16-year-old Martha Puebla was shot to death outside her home in Sun Valley, CA. Ledesma was growing agitated. She told a friend that she knew the Vineland Boyz were blaming her for helping police with the Vargas murder investigation. Some went to a firing range to test a gun they wanted to use, discarded it as unacceptable and found another. "I mean, if that's not a miracle, I don't know what is. Police swarmed the area, roping it off with yellow tape. Catalan did have a motive for the execution-style killing of 16-year-old Martha Puebla, as she was a witness in his brother's trial for murder. She said she had not seen much of anything at all. "The experience I've had, the people I've met, the places I've gone, it's actually all come from this, which is something crazy to think about. We also told you how Netflix is also making a documentary about the disapperance of Madeleine McCann. Chance Michael Corbitt: Where In Gods Name Is The Actor. Returning to the scene of Pueblas murder, Bartlett reveals that she was shot on the street while talking to her friend, who panicked before running away. With his freedom back, Catalan has also not forgotten the show that helped him secure it. Juan Catalan was exonerated from a crime he did not commit after he and his lawyer, Todd Melnik found an unusual way of clearing his name. Juan Catalan is the name of the protagonist of the documentary Long Shot, elaborate production by Netflix, which tells the story of how he escaped the death penalty for having attended a Los Angeles Dodgers game, on 12 May 2003. They brought him into an interview room in the same North Hollywood station where they had grilled Ledesma nine months before. Future news of events, Zoom movie marathons, books, and streaming updates will be delivered first to our newsletter readers. Taking into account traffic congestion, the judge accepted thered be no way Juan could have been at the crime scene at the time of the murder. In August 2003, Juan Catalan, a 24-year-old father who worked in his family's machining business, was arrested for the murder of a 16-year-old girl. But Juan Catalan was as relevant a representative of the ideals that allow us to freely congregate and celebrate as you could hope to find.To Catalan, baseball is no longer the pure diversion it once was. Makes you really call into question the quality of their investigation and ability to collect facts and evidence, when this happens. In reality, you don't automatically have 2022 WeAskFreak - Answers to questions on people, things, and places. Four hours after her audition, she got the call. ", In the episode, David enlists the services of a prostitute -- not for sex, but as a passenger. All You Need to Know About Controversial Divorce Know All About Ex Wife of Dave Portnoy Till How Much Time Recession of 2023 Last? O_O, "Caybman, you were the only phone pinged when the event occurred. Comeback story of 90s Sensation Carmen Electra!! Federal and state courts throughout the country have repeatedly upheld the right of police officers to lie to people they have in custody. Catalans lawyer also tried to prove that he was actually at the game by looking through television footage of the game which again was not a piece of strong evidence especially because Catalan was not seen in the video. Jenya Lano: What Are The Interesting Details To Know About The Actress? Pueblas girlfriend had told detectives that as the gunshots went off, Puebla had yelled, Its Peps! But Puebla denied it, telling Pinner, Rodriguez and two other detectives that she had only speculated that Ledesma may have been the shooter. My friend. Juan Catalan with wife Alma. The Real Housewives of Atlanta The Bachelor Sister Wives 90 Day Fiance Wife Swap The Amazing Race Australia Married at First Sight The Real Housewives of Dallas My 600-lb Life Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. However, since he was related to one of LAs notorious Vineland Gang members, he became the prime suspect. And the fact that he did not fit the description eyewitnesses gave of the shooter did not persuade prosecutors. Youre not going to be telling gang members Ms. The next morning, after hearing that the police had been at his house, Ledesma crossed the border with Catalan and checked into a motel in Tijuana. Thats why we started Creepy Catalog in 2015 as a place for creepy content and creepy people to congregate. Juan Catalan: How Did An LA Dodgers Game Change His Life Drastically? Of the 58,000 seats filled with fans, filming took place right near where Catalan was sitting. You're never going to find your client on a tape., And on the, probably the fifth tape I think it was, Juan walked right into the camera shot, and the rest is history, as they say.. Detectives lie frequently, typically telling a suspect that they have DNA evidence or video footage or witnesses. Detectives are not allowed to strike deals with suspects in exchange for a confession, and they are not allowed to threaten them with bodily harm. A new Netflix documentary is to tell the story of Juan Catalan, a man falsely accused of killing a 16-year-old girl Credit: Netflix. Look at anything you want. And we hooked him up with everything from the stadium, all the footage we shot that night.Im there for maybe five minutes, and the lawyer screams out, There he is!We couldnt believe it. His offer to take a lie-detector test was refused. After a couple months with Juan in jail, his girlfriend reminded him he had been at the Dodger game that night with his daughter. . That is why I keep my Google Location History active - not fool proof, but I am on the phone nearly all the time and can "triangulate" my calls and the location of my phone to establish almost always where I was at any given moment. said, You're crazy. . He repeatedly professed his innocence, and asked to take a polygraph test, a request that the police denied (note: polygraph tests aren't admissible in court). Alarmed by the gunfire, Pueblas mother rushed outside. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Hawaiian Eye Cast: Who And Where Are They Today? Twenty miles away, Marios brother Juan was at Dodger Stadium with his six-year old daughter, watching his beloved Dodgers play the Atlanta Braves. So interesting and so good to know an innocent man avoided jail! juan catalan wife. ", 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events. Why is my life going to end here?. Two days later, Pinner and Rodriguez caught a break. The teenage girl, whom The Times is not identifying for her safety at the request of a prosecutor, had come with another friend, Christian Vargas. It was a game that would end up saving his life. german bakery long island. Juan Catalan sat in jail for five months awaiting trial until his lawyer turned up video footage showing Catalan was at a Dodgers game at the time of the shooting. He just had to prove it. Catalan still works in the family business, but Casselman suggested he remains traumatized by the five months he spent in jail wrongly accused. Catalan and his girlfriend had gotten into a fight. Both Juan Rodrguez and Martn Pinner admitted that they tried to coerce a false confession out of Catalan. Melnik, who had pored over countless hours of stadium surveillance footage but couldnt find anything that was clear enough to identify Juan, contacted HBO and asked if he could review their outtakes for the show. A native of Maine, he moved to Los Angeles in 2003 to join the Los Angeles Times. The 24-year-old machinist was sent to jail to await trial for capital murder. The quirky day-in-the-life series centers on the misadventures of comedian Larry David, the lauded creator of "Seinfeld. Who is Heather Hopper? Only days before her murder, she had testified against young Mario Catalan involving a gang slaying in which Mario was charged as an accessory. Juan Catalan was released from custody after a trial that lasted for six months. Sam Kiszkas Age and Height Is He Still Dating Joy Powell. Facebook gives people the power to. It all started when LAPD detectives accused Juan of a cold-blooded murder he didn't commit, that resulted with Juan being put on death row. . What happened To The Actress. The Judge overseeing this case is ELAINE H PALMER. Thats poison in our bodies that, you know, it doesnt hurt the person you hate, it hurts yourself, and it eats away at your soul. The documentary was released on Netflix on September 29, 2017, and it received numerous awards and an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Documentary for a Short Film. "It is in their manual that they are supposed to check out an alibi or a defense.". But finally, Melnik was able to locate a phone call between Juan and his girlfriend that pinged right near Dodger Stadium at a time where it would have been physically impossible for Juan to reach the crime scene in time to commit the murder. Juan Catalans story inspired the 2017 short documentary film, Long Shot. Soon after regaining his freedom, Juan Catalan and his lawyer, Melnik became best of friends and was regularly seen playing basketball and watching games together. At the same time, youve got to use some common sense, said Dennis Kilcoyne, president of the California Homicide Investigators Assn. This case was filed in Harris County District Courts, Harris County District Courts located in Harris, Texas. It was such a bad experience, and to have all this good come out, I just feel blessed. Until the same tracking pins you near a crime scene making you a suspect. Plastic letters marking pieces of evidence dotted the street. Four other men were eventually found guilty of the murder. Theres like, in there, its just like, you know, thats supposed to rehabilitate a person? Unlike his brother, Juan was a doting father and a law-abiding citizen. They recovered a handgun that would eventually be matched to Vargas death and another killing that had happened the same week. Catalan told Ledesma about the weapon immediately. He pushed three six-packs in front of him. That's poison in our bodies that, you know, it doesn't hurt the person you hate, it hurts yourself, and it eats away at your soul," he said during an interview on "60 Minutes Australia" (posted on YouTube). Its contents remained unknown until January 2005, when during preparation for Ledesmas trial for Vargas slaying -- more than two years after the recording was made -- Spanish-speaking LAPD officers listened to it and learned of the order to kill the girl, Pinner testified. For Juan Catalan, the faults of the criminal justice apparatus briefly showed their terrifying destructive potential when he was arrested for the murder of 16-year-old Martha Puebla. Juan Catalan had filed a police misconduct suit against the city after spending nearly five months in jail for a crime he did not commit -- a point his lawyer proved after producing outtakes from the television show.Mar 8, 2007. While representatives for the Los Angeles City Council confirm the amount of the settlement, it does not come with any admission of wrongdoing on the part of police officers or the city. Michael Kremko: Bio, Best Works, Where Is He Now? Juan is pictured visiting Dodger's Stadium, The horrifying true story of a man falsely accused of a brutal gangland murder in documentary Long Shot is about to become your new Netflix obsession, Harry launches fresh attack on Charles saying he grew up in 'broken home' & insists 'mum felt like I do' about Royals, Break down the barriers? Heard the gunshots. Cataln was arrested on May 13, 2003, a day after the game, accused of the murder of Martha Puebla, a 16-year-old girl who had testified in a trial against Juans older brother. Juan Catalan spent 6 months in jail for the murder of a teenage girl, until his lawyer found unused footage from HBO's 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' that proved Juan had been at a Dodgers game with his daughter 31 minutes before the murder took place, 20 miles away. my house? "Bingo.Within days, Melnik met with David and the show's producers to go through outtake footage from the filming of the "Car Pool Lane" episode that would air the following spring. The authorities chalked it up as gang crime. Sometimes they go the extra step of making up documents to bolster their lies. Under his mattress, they found a loaded assault rifle and letters from other Vineland Boyz, many of them written from prison. Despite the eyewitness, and despite the alleged motive of taking out revenge against someone who had testified aginst his brother, Melnik believed Juan when he insisted he was innocent. I dont even know a Martha, Ledesma lied. She allegedly threatened her girlfriend, telling her that if she cooperated with authorities Puebla would tell the Vineland Boyz where the girls family lived. Why is Win Harrison Wilson (Son of Russell Wilson) in Spotlight? Im a baby naming pro and these are the top so far for this year - would you add them to your list? Its a short doc (40 mins iirc). Fortunately, he was able to remember that someone in his section mentioned that the famous actor and comedian Bob Einstein, who plays Marty Funkhouser on Curb your Enthusiasm was in attendance. Also worth pointing out the lengths Juan's attorney went to to find this footage is pretty amazing. The story of Juan Ignacio Catalan, a man who had a troubled life during his youth and who was about to be sentenced to death because he was hanging out with the wrong people at the wrong time, is told in the documentary titled "Long Shot," which is currently streaming on Netflix. NEW YORK -- Here he was among the multitudes that had assembled in Yankee Stadium on this wet October night. Previously we told you about theBritish family with seven children who lost their dad to suicide who are the subject of a heartbreaking new Netflix documentary. ago Catalan and Melnik are "best friends" now. The next night, Ledesma reached for a pay phone outside his cell. In his defense, Juan provided the ticket stubs to prove his innocence but it was to no avail. THE true story of a man who was falsely accused of a brutal gangland murder is being told in a new Netflix documentary. He was an outcast, perhaps, in his Dodgers hat, considering it was the Yankees and Indians on the field below. Those is the guy that shot my friends boyfriend was scrawled along the margin, followed by Pueblas signature. Pinner kept trying, pressing Ledesma about Puebla and the information he said she had given up. Where and How to Become Billionaire With Just Curtain of Life Fell for what a Feeling Top Five Ranked Characters of Harry Potter, Ethereum The Most Popular Crypto Currency, Oleksandr Zinchenko The Ukrainian Midfielder, 5 Predictions Revealed for 2023 Royal Rumble, What is Solo polyamory?- Important facts explained. With the arrival of federal authorities, Pinner and Rodriguez were phased out as the lead investigators. Whatever Happened To Juan Catalan After His Exoneration. "Though embarrassed to admit he had no idea who David was before this ordeal, Catalan is certainly a "Curb Your Enthusiasm" fan now. He was later awarded a $320,000 settlement for police misconduct, false imprisonment, and defamation in 2007. On May 12, 2003, then 24-year-old Juan watched his beloved Los Angeles Dodgers lose to the Atlanta Braves 11-4, with his six-year-old daughter, Melissa. It also stated that at that time, Catalan was working in his fathers machine shop in other to support his family. Yet even after producing ticket stubs of the baseball game he attended, law enforcement had chosen their man in Catalan, and he was incarcerated to await his trial for capital murder. They prosecutor they had assigned to the case had never lost. Melnik agreed, and it would be the start of an emotional lifelong friendship between the two. Peps, as Ledesma was called in the gang, wasnt there. Cokester, he said into the receiver, calling his friend Javier Covarrubias by one of his gang monikers, do you know the slut that lives there by . The detectives, who were assigned the case, worked through the night and into the next morning tracking down leads. Netflix is also making a documentary about the disapperance of Madeleine McCann, Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO). "Now here he is standing here. "I really did jump out of my chair," Melnik said. Where and How to Become Billionaire With Just $20 in Your Wallet !! Mario Catalan, the suspect's brother, was a co-defendant in that case. Juan's wife's name was "Alma," but It didn't seem to matter to police that he had never owned a white Ford F150 and had never been to Mexico. She is currently assigned to the Major Crimes Division where she vertically prosecutes high-profile, complex homicides. Get up to speed with our Essential California newsletter, sent six days a week. Not long after that her BF was killed outside of her house. But that wasn't enough. I have multiple witnesses who are going to testify that you were the shooter.. ", "Juan remembered that Super Dave Osborne was one of the actors in the show," recalled defense attorney Todd Melnick during an appearance on "Good Morning America" in June 2004. In court, the file was handed to Beth Silverman, a prosecutor proud of never losing a murder conviction. Thankfully, the night of the accused crime Catalans wife had called him just as he was leaving the stadium with their daughter at 10.13pm. Catalan begged the detectives to believe him, that he had nothing to do with Pueblas death. ", Melnick persuaded the producers to let him look at the episode "Carpool Lane" and its outtakes. Juan was arrested and charged with a murder he clearly did not commit. There was also a bystander who identified Catalan. Im so happy and grateful for that.. I busted through the ceiling, Nicola Adams on fighting sexism & inspiring the next generation, Treat Mum to something special this Mother's Day gift ideas from 23, Prince Harry diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder by trauma expert Dr Gabor Mate in tell-all interview. A fourth Vineland Boyz member who participated is thought to have fled to Mexico and is being sought, a federal prosecutor said. In the first of many coincidences surrounding Catalans case, Puebla had been a star witness in a court case where his brother, Mario Catalan, was a defendant. Areas to Examine for Personal Growth Advancement. Based on bad information from sources, the detectives pinned the slaying on Juan Catalan -- Mario Catalans brother. Unlike his brother, Catalan was a law-abiding citizen and doting father. Juan Catalan was involved in Grand Theft Auto, pushed by his older brother, for which he was arrested and marked with a criminal record that would later aggravate his situation, but that he was able to get rid of thanks to a tape that placed him in Dodger Stadium, in a jersey of then-pitcher Kevin Brown. But incredibly, as 60 Minutes reporter Liam Bartlett revealed, its comedy that saved him. On 05/30/1978 for a murder he did not commit Catalan lives today sun Valley, CA, where! He told the New York Post: "That show is hilarious. Sure enough, there was a shot of Catalan and his daughter returning to their row after getting some snacks at the concession stand. Not in my mind. Juan Catalan was later seen in the footage with his daughter returning to their row after getting snacks at the concession stand. A year later, gang member Raul Robledo received a life term for Martha's murder. He was the only eyewitness to the crime and helped them to create an identikit picture the only description being a Latino male with facial hair. "You know, hate is, no one should walk around with hate in them. Its a moment in time that still haunts him today. Pinner is still a police officer to this day. Pinner and Rodriguez brought Ledesma, 19, into an interview room and flipped on a tape recorder. The ruse, as Pinner would later call it in court, was a legal move. Rodriguez was transferred to an auto theft detail and is currently assigned to a vice unit. Went out the next day and saw where she died. The show then follows how Todd's legal team then were allowed to scour hours of footage taken that night to try and find pictures to prove that Juan was part of the 56,000 crowd. On 06/28/2021 CATALAN, JUAN filed a Personal Injury - Motor Vehicle lawsuit against ALLSTATE INDEMNITY COMPANY. He'd felt . Melnik found his client in a poor quality Dodgers tape, but in the recording of the program, just he and his daughter crossed each other in a scene without ever knowing that they were in the middle of a film, that managed to give him his freedom, thus such as the location of his cell phone, in a call to his girlfriend Alma Oseguera, from an antenna located near the Los Angeles stadium. Thanks, I know what I'm going to watch tonight, Yup. Lets find out more about him. Long Shot is a 2017 short documentary film about how Juan Catalan was arrested for a murder he did not commit. But when a police supervisor learned the young girls name, he called Pinner. Read Also:Why And How Was Jazmine Trotter Murdered? In 2004, Catalan told ABC's Brian Rooney how amazed he was at the events that led to his vindication. 13K 208 comments Best Add a Comment Top_Duck8146 6 mo. Pinner and his partner, Juan Rodriguez, had been to that same dreary corner of Lull Street and Case Avenue months before to investigate the murder of another teen. LOS ANGELES, March 8, 2007 — -- A man cleared of murder charges by outtakes from an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" will receive $320,000 in the settlement of a lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles and its police force. The fatal shot -- fired from so close that it left soot and burn marks on Pueblas cheek -- struck just below her left eye. Puebla, in fact, hadnt dropped a dime. Martha had earlier testified in a another gang-related murder case and police were convinced that Juan was the killer. Both Juan Rodrguez and Martn Pinner admitted that they tried to coerce a false confession out of Catalan. Join Facebook to connect with Juan Cataln and others you may know. His girlfriend Alma was driving. With that information, his lawyer was able to ask the actor and shows producers permission to go through the outtake footage from the filming of the Car Pool Lane episode of the show. After his release, he described to a reporter the mental torture of being innocently jailed for murder: I felt like I didnt sleep for six months, because there was just so many, so much going on.l mean, Id never seen so many people just, you know, beaten, you know? Their four-year old daughter was in the back seat. Catalan was arrested and sent to prison where he spent six months awaiting trial. That just destroys a person in there.My thought was, Am I gonna die in here? We are brought up to think that, you know, the policemen are there to protect us, so just knowing that theyre doing something that they shouldnt, that changes everything. Even his daughter had to testify in court, assuring that after the game they stayed to buy baseball cards. Property News:Music promoter Michael Coppel sells Toorak home for more than $30 million - domain.com.au, Your web browser is no longer supported. The prosecution argued that Catalan had enough time to drive home and commit the murder, so Melnik took a strategy from arguably the famous criminal case of all to defend his client. The Carpool Lane is obviously my favorite episode.. View the profiles of people named Juan Catalan. The day the detectives arrested Juan Catalan, they thought they had the right man. john smith laramie wife juan catalan wife. We rewound the tape, and just as Im walking up the aisle in one shot, this guy is sitting right there. California AG's wife . Im Martha, she responded. Police response when the case was dismissed: crickets. Questioned by Mexican authorities, the woman told them that Ledesma and Catalan were wanted in Los Angeles for murder. Juan filed a lawsuit against the City of Los Angeles for police misconduct and was awarded $320,000 for false imprisonment. Before his arrest for murder, Catalan said he never watched "Curb Your Enthusiasm." However, when he was in jail awaiting trial, Juan remembered seeing camera crews filming at the stadium on the night in question. phone records also showed that Juans cellphone pinged a tower near Dodger Stadium at 10:12 pm, which happens to be 31 minutes before Puebla was murdered. Juan Catalan Director Of Pharmacy Operations at Carepoint Pharmacy Rolling Meadows, Illinois, United States 439 followers 432 connections Join to follow Carepoint Pharmacy Morton College About. Founded in 2010, Thought Catalog is owned and operated by The Thought & Expression Company, Inc. For over a decade, we've been at the bleeding edge of media, pioneering an infrastructure for creatives to flourish both artistically and financially. This documentary came out in 2017, 14 years after what happened. According to reports, the homicide detectives in charge of the case, Martin Pinner and Jose Rodriguez, who were certain Juan was the killer, just wanted to set him up and end the case. Mario Catalan, the suspect's brother, was a co-defendant in that case. "Once your freedom gets taken away," Catalan said, "you really recognize how lucky we are to be American citizens. In May 2003, Juan Catalan was accused of murdering a 16-year-old girl in Sun Valley, California, a crime he has always claimed he never committed because he was at a Los Angeles Dodgers game with . The case status is Pending - Other Pending. Once again they switched on a recorder. And he produced the ticket stubs to prove it. "Back in 2003, Catalan was arrested for a murder he did not commit. Well, she knows you, the detective said. View our online Press Pack. And then there was another shot where he was standing up. The Real Housewives of Atlanta The Bachelor Sister Wives 90 Day Fiance Wife Swap The Amazing Race Australia Married at First Sight The Real Housewives of Dallas My 600-lb Life . After a few minutes, she approached the car, where she found Vargas body riddled with bullets. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment Case Summary. The Sun website is regulated by the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO), Our journalists strive for accuracy but on occasion we make mistakes. Not even "sorry." The case status is Pending - Other Pending. Prior to his current assignment, Rubin covered federal courts and agencies, the Los Angeles Police Department and the regions public schools. And as always, he's a baseball fan. The first, his wife and his daughters, with whom he always shared everything. Far from helping the police, the reality was that Puebla had actually tried to protect Ledesma in the hours after the shooting. Long Shot is a 2017 short documentary film about how Juan Catalan was arrested for a murder he did not commit. Even though the interrogation was going nowhere, the case against Ledesma was growing stronger. Does Opening A Savings Account Affect Credit Score, Who Is Ella Rae Peck? With the presumption of innocence missing from the start, Catalan needed an alibi - his life quite literally depended on it. I'm very happy Juan Catalan had a dedicated lawyer. What Caused, Can Botox Help You in Looking Young? "I pointed at the screen and said, 'That's him right there! Tonight on 60 Minutes reporter Liam Bartlett meets the victim of one of the great failures of the American justice system. Juli Fisher: Why Did Jeff Fishers Ex-wife Leave Him After 22 Years of Marriage? He mocked and swore at Pinner, repeatedly denying any role in the killings. You got the wrong person, buddy, Ledesma said. "One of the crew members, he let me go in front of the camera," Catalan said. Bio, Best Films, Dating, Parents. You may occasionally receive promotional content from the Los Angeles Times. According to Innocence Project, approximately 20,000 people roughly 1% of the prison population arefalsely convicted of crimes. The Judge overseeing this case is ELAINE H PALMER. Puebla was apparently aware that she had been labeled a snitch. Juan appeared sitting in the living room, accompanied by his wife, Brenda Rivera, whom he married in 2017 after 22 years of dating. We would like for you to come downtown.". Catalan told Melnik he was at Dodger Stadium watching a baseball game with his seven-year-old daughter Melissa the night of the murder. Despite the video evidence, the authorities claimed the time on the video was different from the time of the murder. In regards to that, the police arrested Juan Catalan, who happens to be Mario Catalan was arrested outside his home in the presence of his daughter, Melissa who was around four to six years.
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